The Council Room

[David Bentley]

"CONWAY – Having roving police patrols on key points of the Saco River, such as First Bridge and Davis Park, could be a step toward improving the culture on the Saco River. A town committee that's looking at how to better manage the river discussed the idea at a recent meeting.

The committee consists of town officials and other stakeholders such as the canoe livery owners and representatives from Trout Unlimited. Landowners are encouraged to participate.
One of the problems is that people are trashing public and private property and the river itself."

The above is the opening to a longer article in a Conway Daily Sun paper today about the problems on the Saco River. The rest of the article details plans about patrols, community groups, etc., in an effort to reduce these problems.

I guess I am at a loss for words about this whole things. I will admit that the last time I was on the Saco was probably in the early 70s, maybe late 60s, and I just don't remember any problems. I actually don't remember meeting up with too many other groups on the river, and I don't remember too many people at swimming locations along the river route.

I do understand from talking with some people that the nature of the users of the river has changed, mostly not good, to include youthful types who take pleasure in interrupting other people's enjoyable time. This is also a problem at places like Weirs Beach where groups of youthful out-of-state day visitors find great pleasure in just making it unpleasant for a family to enjoy their time at the beach.

I guess these people never had the benefit of a talk by Henry Knowlton, Bob Fox, "Cap" Taylor, Mike Freeland, Garth Nelson, Tom Falcon, and others, about 'carry in-carry out', and 'leave the environment cleaner than you found it'.

So, even what we probably remember as a relatively pristine river trip is now fighting to just remain a safe place for the public. Progress? !
_________________
C-1 49 J-7 52 S-3 55 J-10 58
C-7 50 J-7 53 S-2 56 J-8 59
C-8 51 J-4 54 S-7 57 (JA) J-8 60 - 64
1965 - 1968 Military service
Pine Cone 68 - 75 (with wife,Sherry,
and daughter Tracey)
Wolfeboro - full-time since 1997

[Mike Freeland]

That's really disheartening, but I guess it's inevitable.

Through the winter of 1963-64, Garth and I carefully planned a trip in the White Mountains, starting in Franconia Notch, up Cannon and the Kinsmans, across to the Franconia Ridge, across the Pemigewasset Wilderness, ultimately ending up at the Glen House after a night near Carter Notch. We did all that paperwork mostly to impress our parents, and it worked. (I have film (now DVD) of it all.) It's also how we learned to plan Wyanoke's trips to places no one ever thought of in those days.

We bagged a lot of 4000-footers on that trip. That our parents allowed a couple 16-year-olds to disappear into the North Country without communication for two weeks is amazing. What were they thinking? In those two weeks, we stayed at backwoods shelters (all replaced now by tent platforms and supervised by omnipresent caretakers), almost always alone. Just the two of us. In the Kinsmans and across the Pemi I think we saw a total of 5 or 6 people, a few more along the Presidential Ridge, nobody on the Carter-Moriah range.

Now, the mountains are fairly bristling with people. It's been a long time since I've walked those trails, but as long ago as the 70s, I started to see a disappointing trend in the "quality" of people I ran into in the woods and at the AMC huts. There was a kind of arrogant superiority emitting from them, and a lot of one-upsmanship on who had the best backpacking gear. The motivation for being in that country seemed to have shifted from what Garth and I shared - a profound love of the mountains and the solitude of the wilderness - to some sort of status-seeking or whatever it was that just didn't seem pure. It wasn't a pleasant change.

It wouldn't surprise me if the "younger" crowd these days would take over the tent sites with lots of booze and electronics - music and phones - where there should be only the sounds of birds, wind and the mournful wail of the side-hill gougers.

As to the Saco, I remember it as you do, Dave. It seemed impossibly deep in the wilderness even though there was a road within spitting distance of its banks along our whole route. We just didn't know it. We spent most of our swimming time nude, something that today's sensibilities and overpopulation of the river would have had us hauled up in front of some committee. Speaking of which, on a 1962 Presidential trip with Bill Meserve, we actually skinny-dipped at Glen Ellis Falls! Didn't think twice about it.

Yep, times have changed, and not necessarily for the better.

I'm no spring chicken, but because of Wyanoke and some other influences, I go back a lot farther than my age. Because of references to things like the Bean Hole, stories about the '38 hurricane, the presence of college pennants and banners on Boyden Chapel's walls reminiscent of the '20s, I feel a connection to times well before my arrival on this scene. Whatever it is that gives me the respect and almost nostalgia for those olden days seems to be gone from our society. I guess, and hope, that that's not true among today's Campers and their parents. Small minority, but there's a little hope, huh? But they're the kids on the beach at The Weirs with their parents, not the ones doing the disrupting.
_________________
'56-C-9 C. Mosher '57-C-9 Bill Feaster
'58-J-14 H. Peavy '59-J-11 G. Wood, C. Duncan
'60-S-8 R. Leavitt, D. Hemphill '61-S-1 E. Slocum
'62-JA-1 H. Dunbar '63-C-2 (JC)
'64-C-5, (JC) Councilor
'65-C-9 '66 - '72-J-8
'73-JA1 '75-J-6

[David Bentley]

50-plus years compressed into 8 paragraphs !, great post, Mike; should be required reading for anyone entering 9th grade (maybe sooner).
_________________
C-1 49 J-7 52 S-3 55 J-10 58
C-7 50 J-7 53 S-2 56 J-8 59
C-8 51 J-4 54 S-7 57 (JA) J-8 60 - 64
1965 - 1968 Military service
Pine Cone 68 - 75 (with wife,Sherry,
and daughter Tracey)
Wolfeboro - full-time since 1997

[Tom Shirley]

About 25 years ago, has it really been that long, my wife and I and one other couple did a weekend trip down the Saco. I had suggested it based on trip I took through Wyanoke and the Boy Scouts back in the 1970's.

We were shocked at what the river had turned into. Even 25 years ago it was just one big party. Like spring break. Most groups had so much alcohol with them that their boats rode very low. They just tied up to one another and floated down drinking all day. There as one group that had an inner tube tied to the back of the canoe with a BOSE Wave system in the inner tube blasting away. It's amazing to me that there are not more drownings.

We got so fed up with it that we paddle upstream to get to Kezar Pond to camp the second night. There was one other couple that had the same idea. We had a nice quiet evening.

IT totally turned me off to it and I would never bring a youth group on that river these days. I'm sure it has only gotten worse over the last 25 years.
_________________
J-1 1970, Marc Liddle from Scotland
J-1 1971, Bob Vaughn
S-3 1972, Steve McDavitt
S-2 1973, Charlie Thomas
JA-2 1974, Dan Mannis
JA-1 1975, Dave Ayers

Proud to be Gray

[Mike Freeland]

That's even harder to hear. Especially that it had gotten started as long as 25 years ago. I'm glad, though, that I'm old enough to remember what it was like before people started thinking they were the only people on the planet. There were some great memories on that river with Henny Knowlton and those sandy breakfasts, the rope swing, the general store a mile down the road in East Brownfield, the leeches on the third day when the water became turbid and slow before the dam, and the ice cream factory in Hiram. Is that still there?

We didn't exactly carry-in/carry-out in the old days. Not a hundred per cent anyway. Remember the little fields of sticks poking up out of the sand where the beach petered out to banks? We camped in the middle of the beach for damn good reason. Otherwise, we left the shores of the Saco pretty much as we found them. I bet it's nothing but beer cans and gum wrappers now, and that BE, that... BOP, that, that Be-Bop music these kids listen to these days!
_________________
'56-C-9 C. Mosher '57-C-9 Bill Feaster
'58-J-14 H. Peavy '59-J-11 G. Wood, C. Duncan
'60-S-8 R. Leavitt, D. Hemphill '61-S-1 E. Slocum
'62-JA-1 H. Dunbar '63-C-2 (JC)
'64-C-5, (JC) Councilor
'65-C-9 '66 - '72-J-8
'73-JA1 '75-J-6

[Tom Shirley]

Since that trip was such a disappointment we decided to venture further north. The summer before my oldest went off to college the 4 of us and another family of 4 did the Alagash with much better results. Even on the Alagash there were signs of civilization creeping in. The lumbering was getting pretty close to the river is some places.
_________________
J-1 1970, Marc Liddle from Scotland
J-1 1971, Bob Vaughn
S-3 1972, Steve McDavitt
S-2 1973, Charlie Thomas
JA-2 1974, Dan Mannis
JA-1 1975, Dave Ayers

Proud to be Gray

[Chris Gill]

As an active canoer I know well the reputation the Saco has earned. Any padler with any sense paddles the river midweek in the off season. Local tourist board advertised the river and the access is so easy that it has evolved into a party spot. It is now patrolled by the police and has become a major headache for the locals.

The numbers of people using the "wilderness" peaked in the 70's. As you can imagine the places easiest to get to are very crowded but once you have to work a bit the crowds thin out quickly. The Allagash has far fewer people now than it did years ago. There are many places one can go to for solitude you just have to drive a bit longer and walk or paddle a bit farther.
_________________
1965-1975
C7,C8,J8,S4,S3

[DavidAyars]

It's not just the Saco River. The Appalachian Trail has also changed character for the worse in the past 20 years with a huge upswing in hiker traffic and problems with more people not respecting the rules. It's getting so bad that Baxter State Park officials, who became very protective of Mt. Katahdin two to three decades back, are considering moving the trail's designated northern terminus to a different location. Some fear the party abuse trend will only accelerate next year in the wake of this fall's release of the film, A Walk Through The Woods, about AT through-hikers.

http://time.com/4016350/appalachian-trail-hiking-partying

/shuddering and seeing Mike up on Bigelow Lawn, waving a weapon and yelling, "Get off my Lawn!"
_________________
Camper: J-8 1965 (Kevin Ryan), J-8 1966 (Mike Freeland), S-6 1967 (Russ Hatch), S-3 1968 (Jeremy Cripps), and JA-2 1969 (Dan Mannis).
JC: J-2 1970 (Bill Bettison) and J-3 1971 (Gene Comella). Councilor 1972, J-5 1973, and JA-1 1974 & 1975

[Bob Kennington]

[Alec Stansell]

Hello fellow campers!
It's been some time since I posted anything here but I wanted to weigh in on the discussion regarding the Saco. When I was at Wyanoke my favorite activities were canoeing and fishing; they still are and Wyanoke is certainly responsible for engendering my love for those activities. The crowds on the Saco these days are as described, and though disheartening, the ability of that beautiful river to continue to inspire a great love of the region and the outdoors in undiminished. This past spring there was an especially tragic incident that resulted in two deaths on the river, including the death of a young first-responder from the Fryeburg Police Dept. One hopes that this terrible loss will inspire a more determined effort to encourage behavior more in keeping with the healthy and wholesome attitudes that Wyanoke encouraged. It is still a beautiful river, helped by regular volunteer clean-ups, and many young folks are still falling in love with canoeing and the great outdoors between its banks. The advice to avoid summer weekends is generally true, but weekdays and particularly autumn afternoons, the same charms you knew when a camper are there to delight you! Not a year passes that I don't paddle the Saco, catch its fish, watch the eagles and other wildlife and experience gratitude for it's charms. Have a great rest of your summer friends! Alec
_________________
72: C-4 (Bob Chase)
73: J-4 (Bob Vaughan)
74: J-4 (Bob Vaughan)
75: S-2 (Jim Yetter)
BLUE

[David Bentley]

Thank you, Alec, for the kind words. More people (other than just Wyanokers) ought to read your post and develop an appreciation for the Saco.

Sadly, there are sections of Winnipesaukee being abused by "rafting boaters" leaving trash along the shore, and who knows what else behind in the water.
_________________
C-1 49 J-7 52 S-3 55 J-10 58
C-7 50 J-7 53 S-2 56 J-8 59
C-8 51 J-4 54 S-7 57 (JA) J-8 60 - 64
1965 - 1968 Military service
Pine Cone 68 - 75 (with wife,Sherry,
and daughter Tracey)
Wolfeboro - full-time since 1997